Re: [WM]: Discussion on Printed Paper watermarking

["Douglas Gordon" <medsec@compmore.net>]

The original question was comparing paper to digital watermarking and why are they both called the same thing. No one contests the
validity of what is said here but the fact remains that a properly made paper watermark is still one of the most enduring
security/validation devices that can be used on a document. Easily seen and recognised. No reader required.

Digital watermarking is an add on to the original document and graphics and is only used in specific situations to help detect a
counterfeit or validate an image.
To compare the two is very much like comparing apples and oranges. Both have their place but neither is "better" in the world of
document security.
Selection depends on what the document issuer wants to achieve and what the document application will be.

Regards,

Doug Gordon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Picard" <jpicard@mediasec.com>
To: <watermarking@watermarkingworld.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: RE: [WM]: Discussion on Printed Paper watermarking


> Hi,
>
> There are several advantages of digital watermarking for print security
over the physical methods:
> -proven or at least quantifyable security -easier integration in the
workflow (no special ink, security paper, etc.
> required)
> -machine detection-> high volumes of documents can be verified, e.g.
checks -security feature survives the analog to digital
> transition, and can still be verified in a digital version of the
document -automatic (not human-based) detection allows for a
> non-fuzzy decision; also remote detection (the image capturing device and
the detector are at different physical locations)
>
> As pointed out by Slava, other technologies that can achieve the same goal
can also be used. A digital watermark is only needed if
> the feature needs to be covert, or unperceptible for esthetics reasons.
>
> We discuss these issues in the following two papers that appeared in this
years's Spie. Let me know if you would like a copy of the
> papers:
>
> J. Picard, C Vielhauer and N. Thorwirth
> A Fraud-Proof ID card based on multiple data hiding technologies and
biometrics.
> \emph{SPIE Electronic Imaging, Security and Watermarking of Multimedia
Contents}, San Jose, 2004.
>
> J. Picard.
> Digital Authentication with Copy Detection Patterns.  \emph{SPIE
Electronic Imaging, Optical Security and Counterfeit Deterrence
> Techniques}, San Jose, 2004.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Justin Picard
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: watermarking-owner@watermarkingworld.org
> >[mailto:watermarking-owner@watermarkingworld.org]On Behalf Of
> >Sviatoslav Voloshynovskiy
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 5:48 PM
> >To: watermarking@watermarkingworld.org
> >Subject: Re: [WM]: Discussion on Printed Paper watermarking
> >
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >...... several more comments to Miroslav email:
> >
> >Watermarmarking of printed documents is a very important issue where a
> >lot of things depend on the requirements of a particular application
> >which defines:
> >- security requirements;
> >- printing/scanning resolution;
> >- halftoning/inverse halftoning technique (if you do not use continuous
> >tone printing that might be rather expensive for most of applications);
> >- embedding rate;
> >- special tricks that avoid a possibility of copying or enabling
> >self-authentications and so on;
> >- key management protocol;
> >- complexity at the detector/decoder side;
> >- integration into printing process.
> >
> >........ so complex.....
> >
> >If there are not special requirements, one might think just to use
> >simple bar (2D) codes for the same needs simplifying a lot of practical
> >problems and providing low-cost solution.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Slava Voloshynovskiy
> >
> >
> >mgoljan@binghamton.edu wrote:
> >
> >>IMHO, the important issue here is the cost. The second, well, it is
> >>the cost again. The third, we can use math to prove that the digital
> >watermark has desired properties.
> >>
> >>Miroslav Goljan, SUNY Binghamton
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Dear all,
> >>>If there is many of techniques to watermark paper using physical
> >>>material such as holograms,.... and they are still exist in the paper
> >>>even if the paper is damaged, why we try to find watermarking
> >>>algorithm using digital techniques..even most of theses are week
> >>>after print scan....I would like to know your opinion about the
> >>>importance of digital watermarking for print security over the physical
methods.
> >>>Please reply to the the watermark group so we can listen to all
> >>>opinion thanks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Khaled Walid Mahmoud
> >>>ZPU University
> >>>P.O.Box 2000
> >>>Zarka - 13110
> >>>Jordan
> >>>Email
> >>>        (work): k.w.mahmoud@zpu.edu.jo
> >>>        (Home):kwkmmsy@yahoo.com


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